Well everyone, I am extremely upset to say the least. I have been keeping a low profile since we arrived home with Daphne, but I had best get it over with and tell you how disastrously wrong it all went. Words cannot describe how upset I am. First of all, Daphne is not a cat friendly hound as described, she tried to kill one of my cat's! Jack and Daphne took a real shine to each other.They got on great. Wee thing was just lovely, friendly, sweet just in need of a good home with lots of love and care.
When we arrived home with the dogs, David took Jack in first and then came out to the car to help me to hold Daphne whilst I put the muzzle on. Just as I was about to put the muzzle on, my wee cat came flying out from under a bush to greet us. Daphne went absolutely berserk, I have never seen anything like it. She was twisting and turning and doing cart wheels to slip the collar and get the cat. It took two of us to hold her down and David is a really big guy. We went into the house with her, we were both shocked and shaking. This was a mental reaction to cats and it was immediately apparent she was not cat safe.
Once we had calmed down and locked away the cats, we took her for a walk. David and my son came with us, I needed reinforcement's !! Also David would not let me go out with her on my own. We passed the farm next door and she was extremely keen on seeing two cats sitting grooming themselves. She just about took David's arm out it's socket when she saw two pheasants run across the road. She was very keen on anything that moved and nearly got a squirrel in the garden, missed it by inches. Easy to work out that she had an extremely high prey drive. Now, folks, you tell me how that is conducive to being cat safe????
Next day, we let the cats out locked rooms, muzzled her and we all were ready and prepared for the reaction. She ignored my old 16 year old cat lying in his bed, (he wasn't moving, key factor here! ) She showed a little interest in the wee one that she tried to get in the driveway on arrival. We tugged on the lead and were very firm with her. The cat jumped off the bed and her eyes changed, she was very interested. The cat walked quickly in front of her and Daphne just pounced and pinned her down by the neck. Luckily, she was muzzled and there was three of us there control her.
I was told she was cat tested twice in Ireland and then the day before I collected her in the Monday. I was told she was perfectly safe to live with cats. Her cat test the day before I picked her up, involved a cat sitting on a ladies knee. Daphne apparently showed a LITTLE in interest. The cat then "exploded" and then apparently Daphne ignored the cat after that. They told me with a little guidance around my cats she would be fine.
I phoned the rescue in Norfolk, I was blazing mad, couldn't get an answer.
Next, I phoned Carol Scott of Greyhound Rescue Scotland, I got Jack from her, I was desperate and needed advice quickly!! Carol is an absolute expert on hounds and cats. Has 8 cats herself and 4 dogs. She specialises in cat tests. As soon as I told her the reaction from Daphne on our arrival on the driveway, that was enough for her, I did not need to go on any further. I had a cat killer. Carol has been crusading for years about other organisations cat tests, they are totally inadequate. She tells me that most 5 minute tests are completely crap, it takes days to get it right. She immediately found a major fault in their cat test.
Firstly, she tells me that you never ever do a cat test while someone is holding a cat or sitting with it at face/eye level. Most greys are "baited" with live bait, kittens, rabbits, guinea pigs etc; the handler will hold the bait. The dog is not allowed to get it. The dog will know it is not to have it, but is teased and teased to wet the dogs appetite. Therefore, someone holding a cat or showing a cat at face level may indicate to the dog that it can't have it right now.
Secondly, most dogs are not stupid, they know if a cat is at face level it could claw them. It is also not the best position for a dog to get hold of their prey. Far better to have the prey on the ground where it easier to strike and grab by the neck. Carol says you always need to cat test when the cat is on the ground.
Well folks, I knew none of this and trusted the rescue place regarding Daphne and believed she was cat safe, I had no reason not to. I thought, surely, they can't all get it wrong. Carol had no cat friendlies in last month when we were ready to adopt. I told her about Daphne and she said go ahead at my own risk, but, she said, you know my feelings on other rescues and cat tests. I should have listened to Carol, she has been harping on about cat testing for ages to me. She tells me she even had a dog that fooled her. Had it in the kitchen for 3 days(muzzled) she thought it was fine and on the 3rd day it got one of her cats, just pounced. Greyhounds are too unpredictable to do a short test,she says, takes a while, but when she does re home a cat friendly hound, she gets it right, 100% every time. Now, to cut a long story short, Carol was extremely concerned we had such a cat killer in the house. She had no room in her indoor kennels, but offered to do a swap. She had a cat friendly lady just come in, Sally is 8 years, a wee dream, lived with other dogs, cats, rabbits and guinea pigs. She has been very neglected, got huge baldy bits due to a flea infestation and is too thin. Family just got fed up with her. We introduced her to Jack and they instantly fell in love. Saw her in Carol's kitchen with her cats, not a problem. Carol said you could throw her into a room with cats and she would be fine. She also said that we would not even need a muzzle to go into our house, and it is not often she will say that, as she always errs on the side of caution, even when she is sure a dog is cat friendly. Well it has worked out great, Sally has not even looked at my cats. She is wee star. Working out great. Now about out poor wee Daphne, I feel terribly upset, if it hadn't been for the cat thing she would have been ideal. She is a brilliant wee dog, I tell you, not shy anymore ! Carol will re home her, she was perfectly happy last night when she saw Carol's dogs, just completely ignored us, so I didn't feel so bad.
As for Kerry Rescue, contacted them last night, they know exaclty how blazing mad and upset we are, told them, if they wanted Daphne back, they could come and get her.
They declined and excepted Carol's offer to re home her, although I can't say they were happy about it. They will be in touch with Carol, and SHE CANT WAIT !!!! Meanwhile, I feel like a complete fool, and I just need to say, thank God for Carol, I should have listened to her in the first place and not let my heart rule my head. Big learning curve for me. This numpty is going away to hide now!
How awful for you and poor Daphne, it's not fair on the dogs or the cats when the rescue centres get it wrong. But sometimes things are meant to be, ask Sally And I bet it's not long before Daphne goes to her forever home either. So don't think of it as a failure, think of it as a rather complicated rescue...
__________________
Katie, Tricia, Lulu, Dust, Sally, Purdy, Scully, Rosa
ROLL ON MARCH
Marian, I'm so sorry to hear things did not work out with Daphne, Its incredibly irresponsible of any rehoming organisation to hand over a dog as 'cat safe' without proper, informed testing. Its hard sometimes to reconcile the gentle, laidback personalities of our greyhounds with this killer instinct and I'm not surprised Carol has even had a dog fool her. Mason has the friendliest, sweetest nature around, yet he is a cat killer and will pounce at the slightest opportunity. I hop Daphne finds a new home soon and you recover from the disappointment of this experience and enjoy your new girl. Marie
Glad you've found a dog suitable and things are settling down. Poor Daphne - hardly her (or your fault). At least she will still find a home and will be well treated and is safe. I think Kerry Greyhound Rescue should have a long think about their methods and information sharing.
It beggars belief that some organisations can be so irresponsible it is incidents like this that can add the dreadful bad press that the wonderful grey can suffer from. I am so sad for you daphne and of course your whole household. I agree that at least now Daphne will be rehomed in an appropriate home and you now have a wonderful girl to shower in love. It has been an awful experience but all things are part of our learning curve and at least there will be a happy ending in the end with Carol on the case. Oh to be a fly on the wall when they contact her....
Good Luck with your new member of the family hope to see some lovely pics very soon. Don't be too hard on yourself.
moptop wrote:Big learning curve for me. This numpty is going away to hide now!
Don't you dare go and hide. All you have done is take a first step on a learning curve that a lot of people have been on with rescued dogs. Misplaced trust? well I guess that people worthy of trust tend to think that others are the same and that is another learning curve.
I am actually getting a bit suspicious of Daphne the "blue" bitch turning out to be brindle and white?
Sorry that you have had this experience particularly after you had gone to such trouble to bring Daphne to Scotland but at least her issues came to the fore quickly and your cats weren't killed. Good that you could swap Daphne for Sally An older undernourished bitch with baldy bits? she may have had to wait a wee while for a home. As you say Daphne is a lovely bitch apart from the prey drive. Fingers and toes crossed that someone without cats will offer her a home soon.
Thanks for taking the time to give us all the info about the cat tests it was very interesting and the sort of thing that you don't tend to see in books. Lots of love and looking forward to updates on Jack and Sally and of course loads of pics Eleanor Flash and Hazel.xxxxxx
-- Edited by Leolurcher at 13:15, 2007-07-26
__________________
If I can't watch lurchers running in Heaven...I don't want to go there.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leolurcher/
Oh dear. That must have been a really traumatic experience. Poor Daphne, poor you and poor cats! We all make mistakes and let ours hearts rule our heads but it is only from that that we learn. At least now you have found the right dog. As for Daphne - she now has a reputable organisation homing her and will find the right forever home soon. So come out of hiding and share your joy with the wonderful Sally x
I'm so sorry for you, what a disaster for all concerned. There is always a risk with rescue dogs, they are an unknown quantity, you put your trust in the person giving you the dog being as conscientious as you are. I don't think this was your fault and I hope you don't beat yourself up about it. Lets move on and see some pics of Sally, fate often lends a hand when we don't expect it, I'm sure Daphne will be matched with a home soon and Sally must be delighted at the way things have turned out. Anne
Im the person who homed Daphne with Marian and David.
I dont usually go on these forums but someone told me about this so i have registered as i wanted to say a couple of things.
First of all I am happy for Daphne to stay with Carol, and im very grateful to her for stepping in. I have spoken to Carol and discussed this, I have offered to go and collect Daphne but Carol feels and i agree, that it would be better for Daphne to stay where she is now until she can be homed rather than have another journey and another new place to get used to. I was not able to go and get her there and then from Marian's which i think is what Marian means. I had told David and Marian that i have a paid job as well as doing greyhound rescue, which was why she was not able to get hold of me immediately yesterday. As soon as i got home and got the message i phoned.
Regarding our cat test , we feel it is effective as we have homed many greyhounds with cats without problems. One dog has been returned to us as the people did not follow the recommended training, but the cat was not hurt. Carol has said she has had this problem before some time ago where the dog appeared to be ok, so Carol has said she understands that this can happen. Daphne was cat tested 3 times indoors and out, and we felt that she would be able to live safely with cats with some initial training which the adopters had done before. I have not known a dog to have such a reaction after being felt to be ok with cats. Of course I would never have homed her with a cat if i had had any suggestion of this. She was fostered with an experienced dog trainer who saw the cat test, and we both felt she would be ok. Daphne was very friendly to a miniscule Jack Russel, small children and parrot. She didn't exhibit a strong prey drive on any of her walks.She ignored horses that were galloping around and generally seemed to be a slightly nervous but gentle dog.
She could have been highly adrenalised after her long journey. Maybe this triggered her unexpected reaction to cat. We do our best to try and match up dogs with owners and would never home a dog that was unsafe with cats if we felt that it wasn't.
I am really sad Marian has written this in this way, as they seem to be lovely people. I have said i am very sorry that this has happened and refunded her donation and offered to pay the hotel bill. Marion has said 'please dont think we are blaming you'. I think her entry on this forum was written before this when she was really angry and looking to blame someone, which is often not a good time to write on a forum, but i understand she was very upset. We all are, but i know how much they were looking forward to giving Daphne a home so its worse for them.
We are all working to save greyhounds, and we all make mistakes, and learn from them. It is easy to criticise, but I dont know anyone who has worked in greyhound rescue for any time who can honestly say they have not misjudged a dog or had something of this nature, or worse, happen. We will learn from this. I hope people will be understanding of this.
I know Carol will find a very good home for Daphne and we are grateful to her for this.
Yes Jill, David and I had a long hard think about all the events today and agreed that it was no ones fault. You re homed Daphne to us with the best of intentions, hence the kindly e-mail David sent you this afternoon. We fully appreciate the huge lengths you people go through to find the perfect homes for these dogs. We also, have accepted that it was a mistake and that we believe that you don't often get it wrong. We did not want to end on a sour note, after all, Daphne's best interests were at heart and that's all that matters. Marian.
I sat and thought about this for quite some time and realised that I'd been somewhat hasty in my earlier reply. I've worked with horses and, although very different from dogs, can be every bit as unpredictable. I've had a few scares from horses that I felt that I knew well who behaved totally out of character with no obvious trigger. Not that it has ever put me off!
I am sure everyone appreciates Jill's posting on the forum and the hard work all greyhound rescue organisations are doing for the good of the dogs. It is a reminder to us all about how unpredictable animals can be and I appreciate Jill's comments. Marie
Thanks everyone for all your comments and kind words. It has been very upsetting for everybody concerned, including Kerry Greyhounds. The last thing David and I want to do is damage the reputation of any rescue organisation. They do a marvellous job.
We have calmed down now and Jill knows that we all had the dogs best interests at heart and everything was done with the best of intentions. We are not blaming anyone. We all make mistakes. When we decided on Daphne,it was to re home another poor abandoned dog. It was for the DOG not ME !!! I was not thinking about me, I was thinking of re homing a dog!!! And Gillian, Daphne was not uprooted because of me. If you had read earlier posts, you would realise that they have to move the dogs from Ireland to the U.K. in order to them home. She came over with a batch of dogs to the U.K. I will certainly not feel guilty about that. O.K. she had a long car Journey with us to Scotland, but she could still have had the same long journey with anyone else homing her in England. So, don't give me any of that crap.
Many dogs, given a short cat test, can go on to be fine with cats.
However, given that we are all using the same term here "unpredictable" and based on our recent experience, I am now on Carol's side here and agree that short cat tests are completely useless. She has been banging on about this for years and no one will listen to her. Including me!!!!! It takes weeks to make completely sure a dog is cat safe. It is only now I fully appreciate this. Maybe the answer is for rescues not to mention anything about being cat safe,unless they have cat tested for days or weeks. Lets face it, a lot of people will take them, like me, at their word. I will be the first person to stand up and say, I got it wrong, I did not, (and should have) listen to Carol from GRS. Carol tells me she has spoken to Jill about cats tests. Jill has taken this on board. And I have taken everything on board!!! As I say, everything was done with the best of intentions!!!
We are happy to move on, I have a lovely wee rescue called Sally, who has fitted in beautifully. Daphne is doing great according to Carol. She hopeully,may even be luckier on this side of the country to be homed. We all live and Learn. Marian.
Hi all, just a few wee lines to let you all know that Daphne-who is now named Rhea is in foster care with my family and our four Greyhounds. I have been involved with rescue and rehoming Greyhounds now for ten years and it is not very often when one as traumatised as this wee poppet comes along.We have learned that she is only just over one and has had a horrid time in her short life so far and I think the long journey into the big wide world has been all too much for her after all she went through in Ireland.She has been with me for two days and has started to settle a wee bit better,but coming from a very rural situation,taking everything in will take her a while. If she has been in the rearing paddocks in Ireland where she was obviously bred for racing off very high class racing stock,the pups and saplings are left to fend for themselves and chase all and everything mobile from birds to empty plastic bottles blowing in the wind so all she will know just now is to chase anything mobile-be it cat,bird or paper bag,unfortunately. We will take our time with her and gently school her out of chase mode if we can.I am sure she will come round given time.She has been very good so far as we have three cats at our corner and she has not particularly wanted to know them,just a long,hard look,she was firmly held and told no and she seems to understand that command.She is an extremely nervous wee girl,very hand shy so has probably been mistreated somewhere down the line,so her anxiety is understandable.She is,however eating well,getting on fine with our gang-girl and boys-and I am sure with gentle,loving care and a training manner befitting of a nervous wee soul she will come on in leaps and bounds.Will keep you all posted.Kindest regards,Maureen at GRS.
It is good to know that we will be able to follow Rhea's progress with you. Lots of best wishes for your work with her and all the dogs in your care. Eleanorxxxxx
__________________
If I can't watch lurchers running in Heaven...I don't want to go there.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/leolurcher/
Maureen, that is so lovely to hear she is getting on fine, makes me feel a lot better.
For various reasons, I won't post any more comments on this particular thread. it's getting a bit painful for me now. There was a post put on last night, I replied to it this morning, but I see their post has been deleted by the moderators. Don't get me wrong, I am all for lots of lively discussions and opinions, I love it, but the person who put it on became abusive.
I will be keeping in touch with Carol and Jill regarding Rhea's progress and I am really glad you have changed her name... new name, new start.
Time for me to move on and get on with job of looking after poor wee Sally. She is a very needy wee soul too Will get pics on tomorrow, I have taken plenty today.
Rhea is in the best place with you Maureen. Thanks so much for coming to Rheas rescue and mine too! Marian.
Hi all just a wee quickie to let you all know that Rhea-Daphne that was-has settled in a good deal better now. Her extreme timidness seems to be leaving her as she eases her way in with our gang of hoodlums.She is eating very well and is lounging around like Lady Sally in Marian's!! Long may it continue with both of the wee souls.Marian,Sally has definately found her forever home! I will try and get my camera back from my daughter and get some photos of Rhea on,but there are a couple of nice ones on her pedigree page at the Database and on the GRS dogs for adoption page-she is lovely.Kindest regards to all,Maureen and the hooligans.
Maureen, Thanks for that!! already saw her on the GRS website earlier on today, brought a lump to my throat. I knew she would settle very fast. She was not the least bit nervous, shy or timid in the short time she was here. She galloped around the garden with Jack. Played endlessly with my 18 year old son. Grabbed my washing out my hand as I was trying to hang it on the line, the wee minx!! so full of fun and a great wee character. She slept next to our bed on the floor, on her back, looking up at us all night, then in the morning jumped up on top of us and gave us big licks!! What a fantastic wee girl. Very smart too and clean in the house. So sorry to see her go. But too much of a strong chase instinct for the cats. Quite sure I could have worked with her if it was just a little interest. Just could not take the chance with the cats, She went berserk when my cat meowed or squeaked!! probably just thought it was a wee squeaky toy!! Anyway, that's great news, she's not as timid with you an more, perhaps it was just too many changes, poor wee soul!
Sally is wonderful too!! Wee pet was really smelly, flea infested, bald and thin. Teeth are rotten, she's going in to the vet next week, Oh dear, I expect there will be a few extractions. God bless her. Gave her a wee bath, she is smelling of roses. Quite a needy wee girl, just craves attention, don't think she got much. Yes Maureen, Please let us see some more pics of Rhea. I truly want to follow her progress, can't stop thinking of her. Marian.
Hi Just picked up this thread, been away, I just wanted to say to Marian not to beat herself up about what happened. Rhea now has an opportunity to find her forever home, she is away from Ireland, that can only be a good thing. We are all only human and we learn by experiences, whoever put the abusive post had no right! Good luck with your new little girl Sally. I look forward to hearing how both needy dogs progress.
I was told about all the posts on here and thought I should add my own comment since I had been talked about. Rhea went to meet her new family today and made herself very much at home. She is still wary of sudden movement and items in a persons hand but thanks to Maureen she has come on in leaps and bounds and is a much more confident dog. I know Maureen will update you all further. Sally arrived in care with another dog. They were both flearidden (even though they had been "pets"). I will allow you to have a good laugh thinking about us dealing with the fleas at 11 pm so we could take them indoors to meet our own family of dogs and cats. I would like to thank Marian and David for accepting Sally as a new member of their family (not many people are willing to give a home to an 8 year old dog). Sally definitely deserves the love she is now receiving. Sallys previous brother had his dental last week (he lost quite a lot of teeth) but we thought it better to allow Sally to gain a little weight before putting her under anaesthetic. I hope her teeth are not as bad as his were but our vet will take good care of her (he would have me to deal with otherwise LOL). All in all we now have a happy outcome to a bit of a hiccup.