Killing field of the dog racing industry

Laura · Master

RE: Killing field of the dog racing industry

Anyanka · Master

At the risk of making myself unpopular, I've got to stand up for Germaine... I've just read the article, and found it very positive - except for the one paragraph where she claims that 20 minutes twice a day is not enough. Everything else is a real song of love and praise of a rescued and obviously previously ill-treated greyhound.

Also, her railing against keeping a hound in a flat may relate to a bit earlier in the article: Too many dogs are bred in this country and too few of them live in conditions that are right for them. Too many big dogs, Alsatians and Rottweilers, are living in rundown back gardens or even in flats, where they are left alone all day.

She mistakenly equates dogs in flats with dogs left alone - of course that is nonsense, but her point is valid. Our Piper could easily live in a tiny house or flat (she is always where we are, anyhow) but she would suffer if left alone for long periods of time. For one thing, she cannot go without a toilet break for any length of time...

I have to add that I would also hate to have to keep Piper leashed all the time. She loves a good run, and I'm lucky enough to have access to places where there are no small dogs! However, even if I had to keep her on the lead all the time, she would still be better off that way than dead, as long as there are cuddles to be had - which is Greer's one big error, in my opinion.

As far as space goes; I know of an ex-racer who has been rehomed with a couple who live in a static caravan. She loves it - it's probably a nice cave for her, and she won't mind being literally on top of her owners!

FAJ · Enlightened One

Hi, Kirstin, of course you won't be unpopular for having a different viewpoint.

The thing that troubles me is that as greyhound devotees we already know that GG is a bit (!!) off the mark. To someone interested in adopting a greyhound, and who perhaps doesn't know very much about them, the article could be a huge turn-off. Perfectly good homes could be thinking "och, well, they need loads of exercise [that old chestnut!] and I don't have a massive garden, a greyhound's not for me". As for running free, that's great, but some dogs can't run free every day due to injuries sustained whilst racing. Our gorgeous boy, Harry, being one of them. Should it have been a bolt gun for him instead? I think not. My heart lurches, typing that.

Personally, I just couldn't get past her nonsense of a dog living a life in a flat being crueler than being you-know-what with a bolt gun. Of course dogs shouldn't be left alone for hours on end. But neglect can happen in a tiny flat or a country estate - it's the mentality of the people involved that creates cruelty, not the size of the property.

And maybe someone should also tell Germaine that letting her dog run around with no identity tag is actually against the law.

Just to reassure you, Kirstin, none of my comments are aimed at you! We're still buddies.

Amber · Master

I see things a bit differently than Dave. Apart from the sheer horror and cruelty of what this man is doing, there are the following points to consider

1. It is questionable that a bolt gun is a humane killer. People who work in abbatoirs are trained to use this weapon to kill animals cleanly, and the slaughter houses are regulated. This man is untrained and his 'slaughterhouse' is not licensed or regulated. Also - remember Rusty the greyhound in Wales, found a ALIVE after being 'killed' with a bolt gun. How many greyhounds has this monster buried alive?

2. This practice is hidden and secret. No one - least of all the NGRC - is recording the deaths of these dogs.

3. IMO as long as there is greyhound racing in this country, there will be destruction of greyhounds: that is unavoidable, because there are simply far too many to be taken in by rescues and not enough homes for them all. These dogs will continue to die, if this happens, then it should be HUMANELY and RECORDED by someone - be that SSPCA or NGRC - so that the figures are there for all to question and see.

4. The industry is in denial about all the killing because they don't want the true facts to hurt their revenue - it is very convenient to have people willing to kill greyhounds for £10 a head, but the real responsiblity lies with the breeders and EVERYONE who races greyhounds.

glendy · Master

Another track owner speaks out

Herts and Essex News article

Anyanka · Master

Fiona, I totally agree that Greer is wrong about the greyhound's exercise needs; I just felt that other parts of her article balance out that statement because they paint such a positive picture of the greyhound personality.

Unfortunately, Greer is not alone in the prejudice against dogs in small homes - when we wanted to adopt Bonnie it took all my (considerable) powers of persuasion to get the okay from the RSPCA. I lived in a first floor maisonette at the time, and their home checker got all funny because I couldn't just give Bonnie permanent free access to the garden!

Amber · Master

glendy wrote:

Another track owner speaks out Herts and Essex News article

Yes, same old story..."it's not us guv, it's 'some else's' problem

Given the amount of dogs disposed of by this man, it is very doubtful that they ran on flapping tracks only.

What these people don't seem to get is that it is NOT a minority that kill greyhounds...and that their involvement in greyhound racing -whether they as individuals attempt to rehome their own dogs or not - helps to *create* the demand for all these greyhounds to be bred in the first place.

For every greyhound pup out of a litter of 10 that ends up being rehomed, probably something like 7 or 8 of its littermates end up being destroyed as healthy young dogs.

If the industry were truly transparent, then every single one of us would be able to enquire about our pet greyhound's littermates and know where they are and what has happened to them.

Out of my own dogs, I know that one of Petra's littermates went into a pet home; no idea about the other 15 or so dogs that were littermates with mine but I expect they are dead. And that is only the ones that were registered for racing in the first place - not including the runts and weaklings that were rejected and killed as 'useless' before their racing careers even started.

As per usual the NGRC tracks are saying - it's the flapping tracks, not us. What a load of BS.

-- Edited by Amber at 12:08, 2006-07-21

-- Edited by Amber at 12:12, 2006-07-21

Anyanka · Master

More transparency in greyhound racing? Yes. More checks to ensure that the dogs are treated humanely? Absolutely.

A blanket ban on racing? Mmh.

Again, I'll stick my neck out at the risk of getting it in same: I'm German by birth & passport. The main reason why I chose to live in Britain is the greater tolerance and the consequent personal freedom in this country. I have a deep aversion to blanket bans, the 'Verboten' sign everywhere.

In my 'home' city of Hamburg, for example, there is now a blanket ban on letting dogs run off the lead in public parks and woodland, except in designated areas (usually small and therefore overcrowded). This came about as a public overreaction to incidents with uncontrolled dogs that attacked people. Because one Rottweiler killed a child, all dachshounds, poodles and labradors are now to be kept on the lead. Tarred with the same brush. Next logical step: a ban on keeping dogs at all. This is how minorities force their values onto the silent and passive majority.

Hunting with hounds is already banned; let's imagine greyhound racing comes next. Then what? Enforced mass vegetarianism, because a blanket ban on meat is easier to argue than humane farming?

I prefer the slow route, the liberal route, where ethics (or call it 'desirable behaviour') are encouraged and fostered through education and reasonable debate. Blanket bans are something you find in totalitarian countries.

takecon · Master

Hi Everyone,

Just for the record, in my personal experience, the size of one's home is not the real issue when it comes to keeping greyhounds

Like many things in life it about love care and attention.

A greyhound or any other animal, and often children, can be badly neglected in big houses with large gardens.

For the record I have 6 greyhounds / lurchers in a one bedroom ground floor flat. Chaos? No! everyone gets on fine. We all have our place. The hounds get the best care and attention, comfy beds, good food and regular excercise.

My hounds appear to enjoy the company of each other, have a hiearchy worked out and seem very relaxed and enjoying life.

Charles

Jackie D · Old Hand

I have to say that I tend to agree with Anyanka. We, in theory at least, live in a democratic country, albeit a country that is IMHO more than earning its "Nanny State" label. Hunting was banned and the lawyers & hunters found a way round the ban. Other "sports" such as dog fighting & badger baiting have been banned but have continued in an underground format. I suspect that greyhound racing would continue in some form or another despite any ban (which, let's face it, is never going to happen for the same reason that Tony & Gordon don't really want us to swap cars for bicycles - it would cost the Treasury too much). An underground activity cannot be regulated which can only have a derogatory effect on the dogs involved.

I can't help but feel that the most effective way to stop the slaughter is to engage public opinion. Banning racing would hurt the Government financially (both in terms of taxes and job losses) would, so it is not going to happen. Making greyhound welfare a "tickbox" for voters would cost the industry dear but the income stream generated by the sport wpuld continue, even if in a slightly reduced form.

Missy · Master

You are all probably aware of this website but thought I'd post this anyway.

The latest news on "The Dogs" website.

http://www.thedogs.co.uk/index.php?m=aid&id=175

There also happens to be an address for Lord Lipsey Chairman to the British Greyhound Racing Board.
You can write to:

CHAIRMAN'S NOTES,
BGRB,
32 OLD BURLINGTON STREET,
LONDON WIS 3AT.

Calatria · Master

I think it's good to see so many opinions, so here's my tuppence worth.

Greyhound racing should be banned. It stands to reason if there was no greyhound racing there would be no need to breed so many greyhounds and therefore no problems about what to do with the thousands which are surplus to requirements.

It's highly unlikely this will ever happen cos (1) it makes too much money and (2) some people will start complaining about government regulation of their "hobby" and the nanny state, without seeing the bigger picture ie animal welfare.

I would love to see an end to self-regulation. No organisation should police itself.

Jennifer · Big Cheese

takecon wrote:

Hi Everyone, Just for the record, in my personal experience, the size of one's home is not the real issue when it comes to keeping greyhounds Like many things in life it about love care and attention.

Totally agree with this. Im in a one bedroom flat in East Lothian and i have 3 dogs. My dogs are all walked well, cared for and loved.

Anyanka · Master

Slightly off-topic - may I just comment on how much I appreciate the way discussions go on this forum? There are so many places on the internet where things get nasty & personal as soon as opinions differ. Not here, apparently.

Gail · Big Cheese

I agree Kirsten but i think that might be because no matter if opinions differ we all have the health and wellbeing of the dogs utmost in our minds. That is one thing that we all have in common and i think everyone appreciates that.

glendy · Master

It seems there are some plans to hold various protests regarding this. No doubt some supporters will want to become involved.

There is no problem with posting the details of such a march here but just to let everyone know that GAL will not become associated with a protest as an organisation.

glendy · Master

[Greyhound 'cull' trainers suspended

Times Online article

MojoTilly · Master

Everyone else seems to have put a post on about this subject, so there's not really much left to say. Having said that, the true horror exposed by the articles speaks for itself and says enough for any loving dog owner. Something has to be done.

As for Germaine Greer's comments, I never have liked her! We used to work at Battersea Dogs' Home in London where an awful lot of people who came in to rehome dogs lived in flats or high rise blocks. Certainly, not all dogs are suited to living in a flat, but the way we used to look at it was that, if they did not have access to a garden it meant the dog would (almost) certainly get taken on plenty of proper walks. I think the temptation for some people who have a garden is to just "let the dog out" rather than physically walk it. Obviously not all breeds are suited to homes like that (wouldn't recommend collies, for example!) but certainly most greyhounds and lurchers are ideal. Clearly the mad ozzie has no idea what she's talking about!

Spleen vented.

Amber · Master

Sorry, I don't agree about being liberal when it concerns cruelty. If that were the case, we would still be importing slaves from Africa and sending small boys up chimneys. Yes, slavery does still 'go on' underground, but the point is, it happens on a much smaller scale and when perpetrators are caught 'people trafficking' the penalties in law are high. Slavery is not acceptable in our society, that is why it is illegal. What kind of person would prefer to see enforced human slavery legalised, so that it can be regulated? In the 21st century, not many would argue the case for that.

I am using this as an example, to get across the point that the 'keeping things legal means they can be 'regulated'' argument is a very weak one. The racing industry - once the tide began to turn and it was beginning to be considered unacceptable to simply kill these dogs when no longer useful - has had decades to regulate itself and it has not done so. There is also the issue of the NGRC trainers' racing kennels that are licensed only by the NGRC and, unlike other kennels, such as boarding, not inspected by anyone else. This is to remain the case under the New Animal Welfare Bill and the reason is because most of these kennels are so sub-standard in their conditions, they would not be able to improve enough and would have to be shut down.

By the same token, hunting with dogs is no longer considered acceptable in our civilised society, so that is why it has become criminalised, rather than 'regulated'.

I'm afraid that the truth is - it is not possible to regulate greyhound racing to such an extent that no dogs will die. It simply cannot be done, one of the main reasons being that there are and always will be far too many bred and imported into this country to be rehomed.

I agree that a ban is unlikely, but I also believe that a ban on greyhound racing is actually the only way to end the killing.

-- Edited by Amber at 11:06, 2006-07-24

-- Edited by Amber at 11:36, 2006-07-24

glendy · Master

The Environment Agency is involved

Northern Echo article

Gail · Big Cheese

Can Mr Smith not to simple sums and does he never check his bank account....I don't see how 10,000 Greyhounds at literally £10 per head is a " little bit of money". There must be an awful lot of happy children's charities in his neck of the woods...

Dave · Enlightened One

More info in todays Times -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2291734,00.html

Lesley · Guru

Somehow it seems even more shocking to read of the dogs as individuals - their names and their efforts on the track.

Valerie · Guru

Lesley, I agree with you, because when you know their names, colour, history etc., you can start to visualise them, and these deaths and their nature start to take on their proper monstrosity. Many people will begin to feel more about this as detail comes out, and I believe a society can be judged by their treatment of animals. Thanks to Dave and Glendy etc.,for keeping us up to date.

Gail · Big Cheese

Knowing the dogs names and history certainly makes the whole thing more real in my mind, you can now visualise them both becoming happy and safe with a loving family. I think the worst part of the unfolding story is that we now know that had they been willing to hold onto the dogs for just one week then their sad, horrible deaths could have been avoided and both dogs could have been re-homed by now.

JENNY · Big Cheese

Its good to see that the momentum hasn't been lost. Follow up reports keep it fresh in peoples minds.

Have you had an increase in enquiries based on the recent press coverage Dave?

Dave · Enlightened One

JENNY wrote:

Have you had an increase in enquiries based on the recent press coverage Dave?

We've had 6 new applications since Tuesday which is an unusually high amount - hard to judge if the recent articles are making folk consider a hound or if it's just folks that had been putting things off till return from their holidays...

Dave · Enlightened One

I'm totally stunned by this article....

http://www.sunderlandtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=1107&ArticleID=1718703

Lorna · GAL Shop Co-Ordinator

What a bunch of ignorant people they must be!! Breaks your heart reading that !

Gail · Big Cheese

My feelings and thoughts about the people who have supported this man's actions are not fit for posting on the forum