Advice Needed - surgery

C_J · Master

Advice Needed - surgery

Gail · Big Cheese

I have never been in a position of having to ask for a second opinion but i understand that you might feel embarrased at the thought of seemingly questioning your vet's judgement but i would not hesitate if i felt it was in my pet's best interest and i believe most vet's would understand that your love and concern for your dog is the most important thing in your mind.

It does sound like your vet has weighed up all the options though and if he has spoken to a specialist then i'm not sure where you could really go for a second opinion. I think i would bear in mind that the vets who are disagreeing with his decision are not the ones who know your dog best.

This is going to be a really tough decision for you, and my heart goes out to you all, but i think you have to keep in mind that you chose this vet because you believed he was the best and maybe weigh up the treatment that Casper has received from him so far.

Trust your instincts and best of luck...keep us posted.

Laura · Master

Hi Jane,

It sounds that you are really keen on this vet, and were absolutely 100% for the head removal, until the suggetsion of a second opinion came about. Give it some serious thought, but remember,not all vets do things the same way. We have gone to our vet, Machie and Brechin, for years now, and we trust them and havent even considered a second opinion on anything, however we havent had to make any decisions as big as this one. I would go with your instincts. Let us know how it goes..

-- Edited by Laura at 15:42, 2006-10-07

Dave · Enlightened One

Hi Jane, this is a hard one to be honest, I'd encourage anyone who's having doubts about their vets to seek a second, third, fourth etc opinion till 100% happy with the treatment their dog is receiving.

Gail does make a good point though that your friends vets don't know Casper where your vet has the benefit of seeing and examining him in the flesh.

The other thing I'd say is that the specialists at the Glasgow Vet school are basically top of their tree when it comes to their knowledge of animals and I'd certainly be happy with their opinions.

Not sure if that helps Jane - in terms of getting a second opinion it's just a case of taking Casper to a different vet surgery, you can choose to tell them as much or as little about about your current vets diagnosis and take things from there...

CAROLE ROBINSON · Old Hand

Maybe you should tell your vet that you have been given conflicting advice via a friend and that this has caused you some anxiety about the best way forward. Many years ago we had a Chow Chow who had entropia (ingrowing eyelashes) and we learned of a vet in Dundee who was very skilled at correcting the problem without leaving the bottom lid sagging. We asked our vet if he minded if we took Cassie up to Dundee only to learn that the vet had trained with our vets and they would be happy to remove the stitches when necessary to save us travelling back to Dundee! I sincerely hope you get a good outcome from this worrying situation.

FAJ · Enlightened One

Just to back up what others have said about seeking a second opinion. Pearly damaged her tail about 10 months ago very badly. It wasn't healing and one vet at the practice we go to said that it would have to come off. When I took her in for the op, I asked to speak to the vet who was going to do it so that I could be absolutely sure that we were doing the right thing. This chap said that it wasn't nearly as bad as her notes had given him to believe and that we should give her the benefit of the doubt. It took time and multiple visits to the surgery but she kept her tail.

It seems as if your heart is telling you what to do, so go with that feeling. Good luck and let us know how you and Casper get on.

max · Enlightened One

Jane, you say that they will remove the femoral head, does this mean that he will have limited use of the leg, where as if he had the full hip replacement he would have full use of the joint. I myself had a pin put in my hip many years ago and know what the pain was like after it, a year later I was offered bone grafting, femoral head removal or hip replacement I personaly chose hip replacement. This was done almost 20 years ago and I have never looked back, you have met me and would you have guessed that I had had a full hip replacement. I can not see it be any different for a dog. As long as you watch Caspers weight and diet I can not see any problems with having the full hip replacement. He is young and fit and his quality of life would be improved immensely.

This is my own opinion I am not an expert I can only talk from my own veiw, but if it was one of my dogs I would go for the full monty, after I had it done I had no pain, wonderful mobility and a new life. I wish you well on which ever decision you choose. All the best and give Casper a great big hug from one hopalong to another. Nora

C_J · Master

Thanks for all the advice.

I phoned my vet yesterday and spoke to a nurse that I am quite friendly with. I told her of the conflicting advice that I had been given and told her I was concerned. She spoke to my vet and to my disappointment she phoned me back later and just said exactly what I had been told before - that my vet had spoken to the orthopaedic specialist in Glasgow Vet School and my vet is still recommending the femoral head removal for casper and that was it. I was disapointed that he did not elaborate further, or phone me himself to explain or let me ask any more questions. I just feel that the specialist in Glasgow has not seen Casper and I understand that he is saying Casper would be a suitable candidate for the operation (i.e. not too heavy), but I am just not sure if he is actually recommending this option as being the best for Casper.

I thought about asking for an appointment with my vet so I could speak to him further but I have been researching on the internet and I am really not happy about going ahead with the surgery. I phoned back my vets just now and asked them to refer me to John Ferguson at East Neuk Vets in Fife as his practice specialises in orthopaedics and I just want the best for Casper. I will have a while to wait for my appointment as I have heard there is a waiting list but I feel better I have cancelled and feel I am doing the best for Casper.

I will let you all know what happens with Casper. Thanks again for all the advice, forums are great for this sort of thing. Cheers Jane

Teresa · Enlightened One

Well done for getting the second opinion organised. It's always difficult to know what to do in these situations, we all assume that the vet we see is the expert. However, as you know, you have to feel happy with whatever treatment is suggested because Casper is your baby and, I often find that vets appear nonchalant about treatments (even if they're not) - they may have done this surgery countless times but, for you, it's a first. No one ever wants to feel they've offended their health expert and I'm sure they'll understand your need to explore every avenue.

Let us know how you get on

FAJ · Enlightened One

Sounds like you're doing exactly the right thing. Better to delay things for a few weeks than live for years with lingering doubts. Casper is a lucky boy to have you looking out for his best interests.

emma · Guru

Just wanted to add my support and good wishes for Casper. I'm sure you are doing the right thing for him. Casper is lucky to have you!

Hugs and licks to the wee boy from Em and Chad xx

C_J · Master

A lot has happened since my last post about Casper so I will try and keep this as short as possible! Basically I had asked to be referred to a vet in Fife about Caspers hip but my vet then phoned me back and said that he would rather refer me to Glasgow Vet School instead. I agreed and have just come back in from my appointment there today. I was warned by my vet before hand that they do things pretty quickly at Glasgow and to be prepared that Casper would probably get xrays then get surgery the next day. So I prepared myself for the fact that he would be coming home with either a new hip, or a removed hip (whatever they recommended) and got a HUGE cage for him resting in afterwards.

So I went along today and saw the specialist and have now been told it is NOT his hip that is the problem, but his knee where he has already had surgery on his cruciate ligaments!!!! I am in shock I think. Casper was booked in for femoral head removal at my own vet a few weeks ago and if I hadn't asked for a second opinion, Casper would have no ball joint by now and it would have been a waste of time and completely unnessesary. I am angry and confused now. Almost immediately the specialist at glasgow told me it was not his hip and confirmed this with xrays and an ultrasound. He has two problems- firstly the pins that were put in his leg for his cruciate ligament damage are now loose and are to be removed completely and secondly he has damage to his meniscus cartilidge in his knee which need to be repaired. I am not 100% sure what the meniscus cartilidge is or what the op entails but I am going to have a look on the internet tonight when I get a minute to find out what is wrong. So I am now basically waiting to hear from the vet school when his appointment is for surgery to his knee.

I am really angry at my vet, but also confused as to how he missed this. I have seen my own vet extend caspers leg many times and Casper showing obvious pain and discomfort but today it was very obvious the pain was in his knee and not in his hip. I know people make mistakes but I am not happy it was with my dog. I know vets can make mistakes like anyone else but I was seriously convinced my vet was the best and now obviously seriously doubt that fact. He has done so much for Casper and myself and I am pretty gutted about this. I am not going to contact him today, I am too angry

Anyway, I guess all that matters is that Casper going to get surgery and hopefully this will fix his problem and he will be pain free

sorry for ranting so much, I really needed to get that off my chest!!

Jane

-- Edited by C_J at 14:37, 2006-10-05

Teresa · Enlightened One

Thank goodness for second opinions and your instincts !

I hope Casper's surgery will be successful.

It's difficult to know how to approach your vet - I would try not to be too judgemental as they are like GP's, general practice and, as such, not the experts that you have seen at the vet school. This said, I can fully understand how angry and let down you must feel, especially as he or she has done well for Casper so far. At least your vet can learn from this experience and it shouldn't happen to another dog/owner.

Hugs to you and Casper, xxxx

max · Enlightened One

Jane, Thank god you asked for a second opnion what a dreadful mistake your vet made. I am astounded that they could get the diagnosis so wrong. You put your animals health into their hands convinced that they know what they are doing.

Well done to you for having the thought that you were not happy about how things were going. Please keep us updated on how Casper gets on, and if I was you I would think about changing vets. We use a vet in Longniddry , please tell me that this is not your vet. All the very best. Nora

-- Edited by max at 16:50, 2006-10-05

MojoTilly · Master

No wonder you are so angry! You must be so relieved that you got a second opinion. At least Casper is in the best hands now and will get the treatment that he needs. Hope it's a success and he'll finally be pain free. Keep us up-todate with his progress and give hima big hug and licks from Tilly.

Debbie

Dave · Enlightened One

Hi Jane, so glad you went with your instincts, hugs to Casper, let us know how he gets on!

Nicki · Big Cheese

Hi Jane, good for you in following your instincts, please keep us posted on how Casper gets on.

Nicki and wee Janie.x

Valerie · Guru

Jane

it's a real lesson in listening to your instinct. The main thing is you have done so well to make sure Casper is now on the right road, and you will need your energy for you both to get him through his surgery. You can always reflect and decide how you want to deal with the vet situation later. Best of luck to you both.

Gail · Big Cheese

Thank god you got a second opinion Jane, Big hugs to Casper and wishing him a speedy recovery from his op. Please keep us posted on his recovery

emma · Guru

Jane,

Hugs to Casper (and you) sounds like you need it. How awful that your vet made an error of judgement. The most important thing is the Casper is ok and that you got a second opinion - obviously a bit of you was not sure about the original diagnosis and you followed your instincts.

Try not to be too bitter at the vet, as someone else said they are jack of all trades and therefore not purfect. I think the lesson to us all is to get a second opinion if it is something serious, I have done in the past and my vet is never cross (he knows how much I love my boy).

Love to Casper Em and Chad xx

C_J · Master

Casper is going in first thing tomorrow for his surgery at Glasgow Vet School. He is getting the pins that were put in his leg previously removed and miniscus cartilidge in his knee repaired. They are also going to double check his hip again after speaking to my own vet as he has, for over a year, thought that Casper had a hip problem. Even when I first rescued Casper, before his first lot of surgery on his knee I was told he had a dodgy hip. So basically he will be going in to get his knee fixed but we won't know for sure about his hip until after surgery on his knee. I know a lot of you will think I am mad not moving vets, but my vet has really been great to myself and Casper and I am going to decide to possibly change vets after all this surgery etc is over and we see if Casper does or doesn't have a bad hip. Anyway, I am not too worried about the surgery tomorrow, I am more worried about him having to stay over night in the noisy kennels at Glasgow

This will also be the first time Milly (my new foster) has been left on her own without Casper so we will see how she gets on for 3 hours on her own while I drop Casper off. I am sure she will be fine, she's a little angel

Jane

greyluvver · GAL Membership Co-Ordinator

Good luck tomorrow for Casper's surgery. I hope it goes smoothly and helps him. You've both been through a lot recently.

max · Enlightened One

All the very best to Casper tomorrow, and please let us know how things go for him.

Nora

Siouxsie · Enlightened One

Good Luck to Caspar for tomorrow X

MojoTilly · Master

Good luck for Casper tomorrow. Hope all goes well and Milly is fine without him.

Tilly will cross all her toes for Casper.

Debbie

Nicki · Big Cheese

Good luck to Casper for tomorrow. Keep us posted on how he gets on.

Nicki and wee Janie.x

Teresa · Enlightened One

Got everything crossed for Casper here... let us know

Isla · Enlightened One

Best of luck Casper - we'll all be thinking of you. Be sure to let us know how it goes - we'll all be waiting anxiously!

C_J · Master

Casper had surgery on his knee yesterday. I thought I was going to be collecting him today, but they want to keep him in until tomorrow now. They took the pins out his leg (a few screws were left in because they couldn't get them out) and they repaired/removed the damaged miniscus cartilidge.

Unfortunately while they were operating they also found that Casper has almost torn his caudal cruciate ligament. The vet said it was 80% torn at the moment. When I first rescued Casper he had ruptured his cranial cruciate ligament and this was fixed by the pins (TPLO) that they have just taken out. So now he has almost ruptured the other cruciate ligament (in the same knee. Am I making sense?!!) and the vet couldn't do anything about it while they were operating. He also has severe arthitis in his knee from the all the damage that has occurred. The vet is going to speak with me more tomorrow when I collect Casper and he is going to speak to a vet in the US about the caudal cruciate damage to see where to go from here. I think we have to see how he recovers from this operation and see how he is coping before we make a decision.

To say I am gutted is an understatement. I have searched the internet for over an hour and cannot find anything about treatment for caudal cruciate ligament damage. All I can find is that it is very rare. Great

The thought of Casper recovering from this opertion in a few months time and then possibly having to go through more surgery does not appeal to me at all, and the fact that he has severe arthritis as well makes me wonder will he ever be back to full exercise again? I just can't imagine Casper happy if he is on restricted exercise for the rest of his days.

Anyway, i just thought i would let you all know what happened. I will let you know how he is when i get him home tomorrow.

Jane

FAJ · Enlightened One

Dearie me, Jane, what a trauma for you all. And Casper is such a young thing too - what a lot has happened to him in his short life so far. I hope that he perks up from his current surgery very quickly. Pearly sends a smoochie kiss.