Still a problem

Laura · Master

Still a problem

Valerie · Guru

Laura

this is a really difficult one, and there are others with much more experience than me. But just to throw in my tuppence - when Biscuit first arrived, he was soiling at night. Siouxsie said leave a lamp on ( he sleeps in the living room), cos we were leaving him in the dark. I now think a lot of it was down to nerves at being left alone, and he didn't really know at first, we were upstairs at night. He still has his lamp on at night, and the hall door is shut, so he cannot come upstairs, so he is very happy on his bed downstairs at night, and does last right thru the night. I do wonder if Rosie is lonely, especially as she knows she lives with 2 other dogs, and then gets parted from them at night? If your other dogs sleep thru, might she not also, if she was with them and learning from them?

I'm just wondering because she does last 5 hours during the day - she obviously knows she has to hang on, as you are out, and does she not have the dogs company during those 5 hours?

Maybe asking for the toilet is her way of getting reassurance that she has not been abandoned? Perhaps she was left for long periods in a previous life, and like Biscuit panics a bit?

Best of luck

Siouxsie · Enlightened One

I agree with Valerie about letting the dogs all sleep together, especially if Rosie is used to being around them during the 5 hours when they are left alone during the day.

As i am sure Laura will explain later, that she let all dogs sleep together last night and this was a success - so lets keep fingered crossed for Laura and her family that this will be the turning point for Rosie with her early morning antics

Laura - Sorry i missed you today when I phoned

Siouxsie · Enlightened One

Meant to ask about how many dog beds you have. It is always a good idea to have one more dog bed than is needed for the number of dogs - more choice, less grumps!

FAJ · Enlightened One

Just to back up the idea of letting all the dogs sleep together so that Rosie can learn from the others.

When we got Pearly, she wasn't housetrained at all - in fact, she was known for toiletting in her bed area when in kennels. She soon picked up that she hadn't to toilet in the house and was very quickly very good during the day. However, she took months and months to be clean right through the night and we'd often come down to a piddle or a poo. She was already getting much better when we got Harry, who was house-trained from day 1 and has never so much as passed a millilitre of widdle in the house. Pearly has really learned from him. Since then, she's been so good and always, always holds on right through the night (average of about 7.5 hours or so). There have been a couple of times that she's whined to be let out but it's been when she's had a dicky tummy. It's really quite remarkable how they learn from each other.

Laura · Master

Thanks for your replies. Yes, we let the dogs all today last night instead of keeping them seperate. We have aslo installed a stair gate, so the dogs cannot come upstairs. Thank you Siouxsie, I must have been at school when you phoned

Just to say that even in the day, the dogs are seperate. Tonight we are trying lights on, stair gate up, dogs together. Fingers crossed. I will let you know it went sometime tomorrow

max · Enlightened One

Good advice from Siouxsie, and I am sure you will find a big difference. Cas and Sasha are in the same room at night and sleep right through from 10pm till 6.30 - 7.00 am , they have night blankets are scurry inside them so they are not cold and I feel this helps them sleep through, comfort,warmth and company a intoxication for sleep. Good Luck.

Nora

slimcilla · Old Hand

I don't have much to reccommend but..... Personally I think stair gates are the best things ever invented!

I have been "testing" Speedy since I got him 3 weeks ago and have discovered he can go from 11pm to 11 am without a wee.. Perhaps I am just very very lucky....

I wish you the best of luck.. Just tell your Parents he is "special"

Best wishes

Claire 'n Speedy 'n cats..

Laura · Master

okay, last night was pretty good. No accidents and Rosie just started to squeak at the stair gate as my Dad was coming down the stairs at 6:30am. All the dogs were together. About the beds, we only have 3 beds, and really dont have any room for another!! Hopefully this is the start of many long sleeps

max · Enlightened One

Well done, let us hope the trend continues. GOOD LUCK

Nora

Isla · Enlightened One

Well done Rosie, keep going!

We'll keep our fingers crossed for you Laura. Hopefully it will come - Millie's ability to hold on is amazing. If it's wet, windy, cold or unpleasant out, Millie will hide in her bed indefinately! She will eventually start girning for her walk but it can be after 11am before this happens.

Gail · Big Cheese

Sorry i have missed all of this Laura but it sounds like you may be turning a corner thanks to the advice you have been given. good luck and my fingers are crossed for you.

Laura · Master

Well, Rosie's success was short lived She now stands at the bottom of the stairs squeaking and eventually barking. We have tried ingnoring her in the hope that she gives up and goes back to bed, but this hasnt seemed to help. Even if we take her for half an hour for her last walk, she is till up early. Roughly 5am/5:30am. But we wait for a bit longer to give her breakfast because she would get the idea she can have breakky whenever she wants. I know that most of you have already given lots of good ideas, but does anyone have any other ideas? I have emailed you Siouxsie, I hope you got it.

Thanks x

Jennifer · Big Cheese

Hi Laura, i had a similar problem with my foster dog Luna, she was whining at early hours of the morning. I have found that staying up as late as possible helps, i.e letting her out later, means she might not need out as early in the morning. Also last thing at night i had just been letting her out in the garden for a pee, i now take her a wee walk, 5/10 minutes so i know she has defo been to the loo and i give her a wee treat as a reward. This worked with my other dog Eva too, she didnt always do everything she needed to do in the garden last thing so i make sure they get a walk and completely empty themselves before going to bed. This way they sleep better coz the dont need anything.

Also something Siouxsie advised to me was to give a small feed about half an hour before bedtime so they feel fuller and are more likely to sleep. I have been doing this for Luna and last few weeks i've been able to get a full nights sleep. Also try keeping her awake between 5 - 9pm in the evening so she's more tired when it comes to bedtime and more likely to sleep right through.

Although i swear she's like an alarm clock. Every morning without fail, she wakes me up 5 minutes before my alarm goes off Suppose thats a good thing incase my actual alarm doesnt go off, i wont be late for work

Laura · Master

Hi Jennifer, we found that taking Rosie for a longer walk at night sometimes does make a difference, and sometimes not. In all honesty I think this is all food related as she settles down straight away after her breakfast. We feed her supper at 9pm and she usually goes for her walk from 9:30pm onwards, depending on if its a school night/what my parents are working the next day. As for keeping her awake, she gets her main meal at 4pm, and a walk at 5, so theres no chance she sleeps then, and later on she just lies about really. I dont think she actually goes to sleep though. Thanks, I'll see what happens over the next few days, but any other ideas, will be hugely appreciated.

Laura

JENNY · Big Cheese

Do you have neighbours who get up that early? Or something that happens outside at that time every morning? Maybe she hears something and thinks it is time to be getting up then crys because no one appears.

FAJ · Enlightened One

Harry used to whine during the early hours with regularlity It was nothing to do with needing the toilet, because that boy can hang on forever. He simply wanted to be with us. It got so bad that if we needed to get up in the night to go to the loo ourselves he would start whining and crying even at 2 o'clock in the morning - I used to lie in bed and desperately try to hang on, even if I was burst! The milkman would wake him up at about 5 o'clock almost every day and that would be him - up and crying for some attention.

What we had to do was be a bit cooler with him, particularly in the couple of hours before bedtime. We had to make an effort not to give him too much fuss and cuddles, nor give him attention if he demanded it himself - you know, by coming over and laying his head on our laps, or giving a paw. It was very, very difficult. Let's face it, who can resist giving those gorgeous pointy noses a great big smacker when it's laid on your lap?! But we persevered because it was for his own good. And it's not to say that he got no attention or cuddles at all. We were just a little bit more hands-off and would kindly send him back to his bed if he tried to get our attention. Now, he's in a great routine and goes to bed and stays in bed till it's time for everyone to get up.

I'm not necessarily saying that this is Rosie's problem, but it's another thing for you to have a think about. Poor you and your poor parents!

Jennifer · Big Cheese

Is there no way she can sleep in your bedroom with you? Maybe this is all she wants. I dont know if its anything to do with them being younger and like babies who want their mums. When Luna first arrived she was very clingy (understandably) and wanted to be with me all the time. The first week i had to have sleep on the floor beside my bed, then gradually i moved her bed out into the hall, still with my bedroom door open, then eventually into the livingroom. Now she happily sleeps in the livingroom in her own bed beside the other dogs.

Laura · Master

Jennifer wrote:

Is there no way she can sleep in your bedroom with you? Maybe this is all she wants. I dont know if its anything to do with them being younger and like babies who want their mums. When Luna first arrived she was very clingy (understandably) and wanted to be with me all the time. The first week i had to have sleep on the floor beside my bed, then gradually i moved her bed out into the hall, still with my bedroom door open, then eventually into the livingroom. Now she happily sleeps in the livingroom in her own bed beside the other dogs.

Thank you Jennifer, but no. We are trying to get her out of the habit of being upstairs, so that eventually we may get to the day when we don't need the stair gate and she won't feel the need to go upstairs.

Fiona, thats interesting thank you. I will try that. Yes, its quite a hard problem to work out, Thanks to Siouxsie, we have proved that it's not a toileting problem. Now, its just whether she wants attention, or breakfast. The odd thing is that she doesn't mae a sound after she's had some food, so at the moment I'm thinking her stomach is what is waking her up, but then the other 2 dogs only get one meal a day and they hardly ever get up in the night. But they are quite a bit older than Rosie.

-- Edited by Laura at 16:34, 2006-11-10

-- Edited by Laura at 16:35, 2006-11-10

FAJ · Enlightened One

Hi, Laura - just to add a wee thing to my earlier point about Harry.

We used to let the dogs upstairs when we had a lie-in on a Saturday. Either Steve or I would get up and let them out for the loo then let them come upstairs with us. This was fine at the weekend but then we did it a fair few times during a week-long holiday. It definitely made Harry worse, in that he was running upstairs to our room at every opportunity - even when we weren't there - and crying with regularity at earlier and earlier hours. Nowadays, if we want a lie-in then we just toilet/feed the dogs and settle them back in the ir beds in the kitchen and they're 100% fine.

I know this might sound hard on the dogs but I think (or, at least, I hope!) that everyone who knows us knows how much we love our dogs and will understand that we do it for the right reasons because we don't want to feed Harry's anxieties.

Laura · Master

Hi

Just a quick reply to say that a few nights ago Rosie got up at 5:20am, was put back on her bed and we didn't hear anything until about 9:30am!! We are going to keep trying this, putting her back on her bed etc, and hopefully she will learn. I will let you know how we get on.

Isla · Enlightened One

Good luck - fingers crossed this will work!

Teresa · Enlightened One

on a similar note, Tom has taken to waking us early - 4 or 5 ish - for his breakfast. however, he won't do his toilet until he has eaten so we're not sure whether he's hungry or needing the toilet. once he's eaten and been in the garden, he's happy to go back to bed.

if it's hunger, i'd be happy to try ignoring him (even if his barking wakes the neighbours!) but if he needs a wee that seems very cruel and i'd rather he tell us than leave a puddle or worse.

he's only started doing this in the last couple of weeks and i don't know how best to tackle the problem. tonight, i've saved some of his dinner for him to have just befored bedtime so, with any luck, his tummy won't be so empty so early!

any ideas would be gratefully received.

Laura · Master

Hi Teresa, this sounds so much like Rosie!

We phoned Siouxsie to ask for some advice, and the first thing we did was to put a stair gate up as Rosie was always bounding about the stairs. This stopped her coming up stairs, but she did still squeak. I think perseverance is what did it for us. We also were worried about her weeing in the house, but whenever Rosie got us up, whether she needed it or not, she was put out in the garden and then given breakfast. We also tried giving her some meal just before she went to bed, but this didnt seem to help. Now, if she wakes too early she is put on her bed and told 'stay' but nothing else is said, we think this works as she isnt getting any attention/affection which also might be what she wanted. I dont know what time suits you, but we have now got Rosie sleeping until at least 6 o clock. This is good for us as when she gets breakfast she goes back to sleep, much appreciated at the weekend! Hope this helps you

Teresa · Enlightened One

Hi Laura

All the dogs sleep upstairs with us (always have done) and it's a bit tricky to ignore Tom as his bark is so loud, especially in the early hours when there are no other noises, and i'm worried about the neighbours complaining! we always let him in the garden as the first choice in case he wants the toilet but he just never does it until he's eaten Like Rosie, Tom always goes back to bed quite happily when he's had his brekkie.

Last night we gave him a little bit of supper at about 11pm. this morning he didn't wake until just after 6am so this is much better. i will try the supper again tonight.

Thanks for your feedback and i'll let you know how we get on with him.

Laura · Master

Good Luck with Tom!

Teresa · Enlightened One

Tom had his little bit of supper at 11am ish last night. This morning he thought breakfast time was 4.20am. I am at a loss now. Hoping to speak to Souixsie about it this evening.

Gail · Big Cheese

Hopefully Siouxsie will be able to suggest something else for you to try, hope you get it sorted soon!!

Laura · Master

Aww, sorry to hear that Tom is still waking early. Hopefully Siouxsie will be able to help you more

Teresa · Enlightened One

well, had a long chat with Siouxsie last night. she suggested we keep Tom awake during the evening (or at the very least, not let him get into that really deep sleep they do) by various means, including massaging his feet! so, did that yesterday evening and he didn't wake until gone 6am this morning - result!

daisy not so successful so far. having said she never wees in the house when we aren't here, i came home to a slightly soggy dog bed this lunchtime

oh well, will persevere with her suggestions - she's certainly come up with some things i hadn't considered.

thanks to everyone for your support, thoughts and suggestions. will keep you posted.